Curse

Xomah of Denyle · Sep 04, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

The better option is to have a bazaar like zone (area) in each city, in which players can stand as merchants (or hire NPC ones), set prices on their items and just wait for buyers to come along, browse their wares then buy (Everquest style). That way nobody would want to overprice items cuz there will be other sellers, in addition to a vendors/items specific search system.
People can go afk while selling, or even better: if you could just hire an NPC merchant that would stand and sell items for you at your set prices, you could go play missions. We could have a real economy setup.

GuildWarsPlayer · Sep 04, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

3. Everyone is expecting to buy a gold crystalline sword with 15>50 & +30 health for 10k. - That's pretty self-explanatory, and makes me wonder. I would say at any one time, that at least 60% of the vendors of gold items are selling at stupid prices, while some have a stab at offering a decent price for a good weapon, for the simple reason that they just want to carry on with the game, and not spend hours stuck in LA. The problem that they have is that even if they offer at rock bottom prices, everyone who looks usually leaves because it's not "Perfect" (I've had someone turn down a gold raven staff I was selling with +28 health for 10k, because it wasn't +30!)

So all we are left with is either completely max stats items that would sell for billions (like the cystalline) or very good almost max stats items that wouldn't sell... Come on, what's a +2 health gonna change anyway ? it's more than nonsense that it will grant a real advantage in battle.

As i see, all those max damage/very nice mods hardly sell higher than 400 Gold at the shop thought they are stated as rare... Let's face it, introduce some real cash boost at NPC for gold items, make it so they would buy at least 1k, up to 4-5 k depending on the mods. Then, make the NPC sell back those items at decent prices (like 500 % of what they bought it).

musefanalert · Sep 04, 2005, 11:31 AM // 11:31

my character manages quite well with a 14-25, +1 zealous, +1 marksmanship bow that not gold or anything (although would like better zealous bit, just can not find any) so you really do not need a max damage, golden uber weapon of godly parameters to complete the game! The only time that you would need the foresaid weapon is if they brought in a 1 v 1 arena as this game is more about teamwork when your out doing mission etc

Numa Pompilius · Sep 04, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

this thread doesn't prove mudflation.

True. On the other hand, I wasn't basing my opinion on this thread, but on my own attempts at selling things, and how that has changed since the first week after release.

A week after release, an item which was just one point below max damage was quite valuable, now it's unsellable unless you drop to near merchant prices and spam wts for half an hour in a dozen different districts.

Why? Well, I think we'll all agree it's not because people don't have money. Everyone and their grandmother could afford to spend 2-3K on a new weapon if they wanted to. IMO it's obvious it's because everyone already got max or near max weapons, and don't need to buy another one. The only items in high demand are the perfect max ones, and the ones of prestige types (stormbows etc) because those are the only ones the market isn't already saturated with.

And that is mudflation.

One might argue whether this is undesirable or not, of course. It's not obviously bad that everyone's got decent gear.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 04, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Question to all: would you like to see a Weapons, Foci, and Upgrades trader?

Axle_Fieshe · Sep 04, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Question to all: would you like to see a Weapons, Foci, and Upgrades trader?

yes

Precur · Sep 04, 2005, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Aye, on that Numa Pompilius, this has to be at the top of my wish list ..

Pax

trelloskilos · Sep 04, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsPlayer

So all we are left with is either completely max stats items that would sell for billions (like the cystalline) or very good almost max stats items that wouldn't sell... Come on, what's a +2 health gonna change anyway ? it's more than nonsense that it will grant a real advantage in battle.

As i see, all those max damage/very nice mods hardly sell higher than 400 Gold at the shop thought they are stated as rare... Let's face it, introduce some real cash boost at NPC for gold items, make it so they would buy at least 1k, up to 4-5 k depending on the mods. Then, make the NPC sell back those items at decent prices (like 500 % of what they bought it).

...just like I said....

Wotan · Sep 04, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xomah of Denyle

The better option is to have a bazaar like zone (area) in each city, in which players can stand as merchants (or hire NPC ones), set prices on their items and just wait for buyers to come along, browse their wares then buy (Everquest style). That way nobody would want to overprice items cuz there will be other sellers, in addition to a vendors/items specific search system.
People can go afk while selling, or even better: if you could just hire an NPC merchant that would stand and sell items for you at your set prices, you could go play missions. We could have a real economy setup.

I'm all for that!

Arturo02 · Sep 04, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

True. On the other hand, I wasn't basing my opinion on this thread, but on my own attempts at selling things, and how that has changed since the first week after release.

A week after release, an item which was just one point below max damage was quite valuable, now it's unsellable unless you drop to near merchant prices and spam wts for half an hour in a dozen different districts.

Why? Well, I think we'll all agree it's not because people don't have money. Everyone and their grandmother could afford to spend 2-3K on a new weapon if they wanted to. IMO it's obvious it's because everyone already got max or near max weapons, and don't need to buy another one. The only items in high demand are the perfect max ones, and the ones of prestige types (stormbows etc) because those are the only ones the market isn't already saturated with.

And that is mudflation.

One might argue whether this is undesirable or not, of course. It's not obviously bad that everyone's got decent gear.

there is nothing you can do to stop mudflation. Perhaps selling weapons is the wrong career choice in the game, the market was bound to dry up at some point. GW is not designed for a merchant profession. Not saying it's bad or anything, just that the code and mechanics do not support the viability of a long term career in it in the game.

Sanji · Sep 04, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Arturo is exactly right.

For a power farmer/seller, Guild Wars is horrible because it does not provide them with a market that is driven by hard to obtain rare items, so the inequity that they thrive in simply does not exist. Sure, there are haves and have nots, but the seperation isn't that one has viable gear and the other doesn't, rather, the seperation is that the "Haves" perform slightly better and have somewhat of a unique appearance.

Of course, whether viable endgame Armor and Weapons being easy to obtain is gamebreaking to you is one of those things that decides if you should play Guild Wars or just stick to more traditional RPGs.

flashz · Sep 05, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlY_DeMoN

they really have to make a "vendor" option, that way you can just leave your account on and go do something else.

yup works really nice

i can just leave guildwars on all night, until someone buys my items

Red Sonya · Sep 05, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Just about everyone has at least one farming level character by now also. Last piece of gear I bought from a player was when I first left pre-searing, then with websites now that practically show where every collector is and what they have and what they want for the items, no need to buy anything from players anymore. I noticed the hording of monk runes stopped pretty fast after the protective bond nerfing. haha Other than upgrades now, there's nothing else I 'need' for my character. 15k armor isn't a necessity so I'm hording my money for whatever comes in the expansion and who knows maybe even then I'll have no need to spend it other than skill points. There's a lot of areas that are farmable for most characters without having to rely on UW and it gives more variety so it's not the same ole same ole day in and day out.

The only game where an economy will continue to prosper is a game where things deterioate like DAOC has. I always had good income in that game from start to finish.
deterioating equipment would be a kewl addition to the game and of course a nice money sync.

EQ2 was going to have it, but, I guess enough people whinned about it that they dumped it before release. And Everquest had enough expansions and super elite new items in each one to keep the economy going in that game. Has to be one or the other though, this one just doesn't have enough different types and better weapons. Eventually everyone is going to have the same thing in this one. Stuff just comes too easily excluding "vanity" items.

And 9pts isn't worth the price of a superior vigor rune over a major vigor rune (pretty common). 9 more hps would go in one swipe, one cast one drain in less time than you can blink your eyes. Superior absorption is questionable as well. 1 more point of dmg reduction isn't that great either when you are getting pounded for 50pts a pop or degened at a very fast rate.

Like was said in another thread, many things including upgrades don't make that much of a difference, mostly cosmetics with only a few upgrades valuable. HP's over Armor? Iffy at most which is better. 100k for +30 hps though is a bit rediculous. One hit or a few seconds of degen. Defy Pain and Endure pain are a better value. It's rare I can say in a battle in which I died "gee if I had just 30 more hps I woulda won", very rare.

Main thing though, just like in the real world a business can price themselves right out of business. When you drop your prices to reasonable levels they sell rather quickly when you try to get 100k or more for something then you've stepped over into the rediculous where many are concerned anymore.

coolsti · Sep 05, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Maybe all these people spending hours trying to sell blue, purple and less than max gold items will realize that no one really wants to buy their stuff? Instead, go back and play and enjoy the game! Sell your blue and purple and less than max gold items to the merchants (I do) for whatever you get for them, and get on with it.

I found this game to be a very pleasant challenge when playing my first character. Now I am finding all the quests and missions to be very easy. And I believe the real reason is that now I, and certainly all the rest in my party, are equipped with weapons that are much better than what the game designers had intended at the current stage of the game. And this is due to how easy it is to buy advanced equipment (or as in my case, to hand it down from a higher level character's find). Too bad, really, I miss the challenge! It would be nice if there was implemented character level requirements for weapons and armor.

Edit: off topic but an afterthought: it saddens me to see so many players with low level characters willing to be run to the next town, or to Droknars to get max protection armor, and willing to buy advanced weapons instead of playing the game as it was naturally designed to be played. I think these people are missing a lot!

burai · Sep 05, 2005, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Maybe all these people spending hours trying to sell blue, purple and less than max gold items will realize that no one really wants to buy their stuff? Instead, go back and play and enjoy the game! Sell your blue and purple and less than max gold items to the merchants (I do) for whatever you get for them, and get on with it.

I found this game to be a very pleasant challenge when playing my first character. Now I am finding all the quests and missions to be very easy. And I believe the real reason is that now I, and certainly all the rest in my party, are equipped with weapons that are much better than what the game designers had intended at the current stage of the game. And this is due to how easy it is to buy advanced equipment (or as in my case, to hand it down from a higher level character's find). Too bad, really, I miss the challenge! It would be nice if there was implemented character level requirements for weapons and armor.

I agree with everything coolsti says - nicely put. I love guild wars, but it is rather easy now that my first character can supply all my other characters with all the best collector weapons with just a little light farming.

Paladin_Adoni · Sep 07, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Simple, add an auction house to the various main areas, inside is the auctioner.

you walk in, talk to him, give him the item(s) you want to sell to players, set your min price, and set a sell-now price, the weapon then stays with the auctioner, you then run off on your merry way waiting for it to be sold or to meet your min price.

1/2 an hour later, you get a system message saying someone has baught-it-now and your gold is waiting at the auctioneer for you to pick up when you so feel like it.

from the buyers point of veiw :

walk into the auction house, talk to the guy and take a look at the items currently on auction. a window pops up with filters (weapon type, damage range, color, attrib, attrib level, modded etc)

each item has no seller written spill about how good it is, just the standard GW item naming you get when you place your cursor over it, it has the icon and mouse-over gives you the full details. you can equip the item (to see what it looks like on your guy) make a bid, and set your max bid or buy it now. that money is then removed from your character and held by the auctioneer until you either win the auction, or lose it.

TADA problem solved, no more spam, no more ripoff's, no more scammers, no more town hopping.

Con Quessso · Sep 07, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

when I dont feel like spending a whole lot on my warrior, I just buy a 13-14% > 50% health weapon and customize it. No one wants to customize their perfect stuff because of resale - but why not customize something that's not perfect? end result is it is more effective than the perfect item that costs 10x more.

Anet has hinted at a market/bazaar system. I welcome it if only just to save me from the utter tedium of spamming my wares on the trade channel for an hour. The prices problem is due to a lack of money sinks in the game, imo.

EternalTempest · Sep 07, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Question to all: would you like to see a Weapons, Foci, and Upgrades trader?

Yes, Yes, Yes

Sorry to disagree with the OP but I'm glad, collector items are so close to Max Gold etc, and the extreme prices have been turning me off. I find I can get just about anything without having to use human traders. In fact I've given away a lot of stuff including a max damage plain storm bow (to a ranger in need). It's my personal opinion, that's all.

I'm personally highly turned off by Max Gold Goldy X for XXK gold when a -1 off is much more afforadable and since I'm not a die hard PvP not having max doesn't bother me.

Also the cryptic notes about how more changes in the economy is coming with Sorrow's Furnace. Curious as to what changes are going to happen.

Epinephrine · Sep 07, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I don't think it is worth trying to sell anything but perfect items of desirable types atm.

Mods are worth selling, but they're cheap excepting extremely special ones. A mod trader would be great for availability, as would a wepon/foci trader. For example, I want a bow that gives my damage bonus while in a stance - but that's harder to find, ironically, than a >50%, because people keep the >50% to sell and ditch the while in stance versions. If a trader existed I could get the bow I want

As a stats guy I could even help them with the formulae to come up with trader pricing for items - after all, it's actually a complex model, since you have to adjust for the bow type (looks and type), the natural modifier (what gives bonus, and what % bonus for example) as well as mods in the weapon (zealous, sundering...) though the mod prices can be pulled from the mod trader. Given this, the fact is that you'd need to develop model of the effect of the various mods in the different bows - some will be next to worthless, as they simply imitate collectors bows on common bow types, while others will be worth a great deal, as the model is sought after, or at a minimum doesn't appear at a collector. Partialling out the effects of the various factors from each other would be fun, and could make for an interesting system, rather than using formulae that don't actually fit the model, and ending up with an unpalatable system. You could simply allow each price to vary on its own, but I suspect that the number of transactions on a given item might not make it possible - for example, how many Vampiric (3/1) Composite bows of Vigor (+27) with 13% more damage while hexed are actually sold and bought? might not be enough to get an actual price based on those sales alone, so you need some fun math to figure out pricing.

Warchief Blong · Sep 07, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Salvage it.